Sorry all, forgot to say my earlier post was based on the Merriam-Webster dictionary. Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger. If you shout forth hate-speech, look inward first.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pagan

Blessings to you all,

Pagan comes from a Latin word meaning rustic, villager, peasant. Heathen comes from those who lived on the heath. As Christianity began to spread north from Italy, the Roman Catholic Church, it's main advocate in Europe at the time, found it easiest and most logical to establish congregations and church offices in population centers like cities. Bishops, archbishops, cardinals lived almost exclusively in population centers.
Since Christianity, like Islam and historic Judaism, was monotheistic, and, since it was and is an evangelical faith, it saw itself as an opponent to the folk religions encountered in those centers of habitation. A parish could be defined, a priest and/or priests assigned. The work of stamping out the old faith had good organization and discipline.
However, in the villages, out among the peasants and rustics, on the heath, the reach of the church was weaker and the old ways held on. Eventually, the words pagan and heathen acquired a secondary meaning, which we take as primary. It's where the old gods and old folk ways, old rituals still happened.
In some parts of Europe Scandinavia, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the Roman Catholics never completed their evangelical mission and some folk ways remained, even until now. A good book on the Celtic side of this story is The Celtic Fairy Faith. It's written by the man who translated the Tibetan Book of the Dead, W. Evans Wentz.
I consider myself a pagan, too, and if folks express interest I'll tell you more about what it means to me.

Thank you CharlesBellis for the history lesson. Sincerely.

In your first sentence I quoted above you have given an accurate description of Christianity, it is monotheistic and evangelical. However, if one approaches those with foreign ideals out of concern and love for them they can never be "opponents." They may follow other gods, but that should not make them opponents. Asking them to question their beliefs is a maturing exercise, not an open challenge.
Question: If a family member was driving to Cheyenne and after they started their journey you learned the bridge over the Poudre river was out, would you not call them and council them to change course in order to save their life? Would you do the same for a total stranger?
In review of this thread it is not the true followers of Jesus who seem to look on others as opponents.
It is also true that the failure of a sect calling themselves Christians to teach the Bible, the whole council of God, and make that the compass and Truth for life does in no way justify or rationalize false religions.

Your second sentence I quoted also stated correctly that there will always remain those who choose to follow their own gods. This is not a failure of Christianity but rather a sad statement that supports what the Bible says- that some hearts will grow cold and hard, and they will follow their own desires. Jesus stands with His arm out to us, all we have to do is take His hand. The choice is ours alone.

Having wasted the first 51 years of my life as a "Pagan" I condemn no one, but I also believe that Truth is not fluid or malleable to what best suits our current feelings and culture.

Again, blessings to you all.

I am unsure of your distinction here. To me the terms are almost synonymous, with the only distinction I can think of being the level of organization of the spirituality. My confusion probably lies in the fact that I do not have a spiritual bone in my body, although I follow many of the benign tenets of religions; I just do not agree that there is a deity or group of deities setting these spiritual or religious guidelines in place, but rather believe that humans over the course of history have evolved these guidelines themselves without any divine intervention. So, I'd like to ask to try to understand you … what differentiates a "spiritual path" from a "religion"?

Three pages of questions..................where is LilDergen to answer these many questions? I would like to hear from him/her.

This has been an interesting thread, but no one has really tried to answer the second question I had of the OP.
What sort of after life do you believe in?
The appeal of Christianity is easy, the promise of eternal life! But with that comes the threat, and possibility of eternal damnation if a certain set of rules aren't followed. People not wanting to live by those rules is what has led to the many christian denominations. I suspect Christianity gained a lot of it's popularity because some people felt the rules of Christianity were easier than, the rules of Islam and Judaism.

It's also easy to understand the modern movement toward "paganism'. charlesbellis did a fine job of explaining it's original meaning, but that meaning has certainly evolved. The meaning that WarrenK so easily gave us explains why so many people raised in a Christian faith have sought answers elsewhere.
"one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods"
I've never known any one who called themselves a Pagan, so I can't speak to their character, but that definition does fit a lot of people who have called themselves Christian. I, and I suppose, a lot of others have seen so much hypocrisy, in organized religion, we just gave up on it.

In my case, I haven't given up on God or the idea of one God. I've just decided I don't need to belong to a club in order to seek him.

So my question still stands, to those who call themselves pagan is there someplace you expect your "spirit" to go to after this life? do you expect to have any conscience awareness of this next place? or do we just meld into the world as a fertilizer of sorts for the next new growth?

Or perhaps, we're all looking for the same end, just from different paths and places!

Christianity is not a religion, its a relationship with God and requires us to only believe to be saved. The denominations that have added works or have burdened us with rules and requirements beyond that are not representing the Christianity of the Bible. Sad.


Not sure I'm tracking with you here Scalawagy. My "easily gave" meaning was straight from Merriam-Webster, see the link above in this thread to their site. Also I'm struggling with connecting the dots on how this definition leads to 'Christians' seeking answers elsewhere. If you mean they are leaving to seek worldly pleasures, then that is tragic for them. I put 'Christians' in quotes above because the Bible tells us "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us." 1John 2:19 NASB. True Christianity is growing worldwide with many converting to it. The reports of its demise are greatly exaggerated, because it's not a product of man but of the one true God.

Truly not trying to be confrontational, just wondering.

Blessings to you all,

WarrenK, I have problems with your use of a dictionary definition of paganism in this thread. In particular, one thing most definitely did not come across in your cut-and-paste job, and that is that the "hedonistic" and "sensual" definition is the second definition listed, which indicates that it is an alternate or not primary definition. It is probably acceptable for inclusion in a dictionary, because that is the definition that Christianity, as a whole, has imposed over time on a religion that it considers to be Not Worthy (it would have been nice of M-W to include some sort of a mention that it is a biased definition). But that just points out the circular nature of these kinds of things: Christianity evolves a prejudiced idea of another religion, propagates it to the degree that formal references include that idea in their alternative definitions, and then Christians use those definitions as rationalization of their prejudice.

Is that a belief in God or the resurrection?

Wow this thread has certainly gotten interesting even if we've diverted well away from the OP's post (who seems to have disappeared anyway).
Warren - this is the first time I've seen Christianity not defined as a religion. I say it HAS to be as OTHER religions also have a relationship with (one) God. I thought what defined Christianity is that you believe Jesus Christ was a son of God and is your savior. Right? A Methodist and a Catholic are both Christian religions but Islam or Judaism are not even though they have a relationship with one God.

I believe all religions were developed as a way for humans to make sense of who they are, why they are and how they are to survive in the world. Also, it was a way to feel at peace with the concept of your death. I always thought that 'Pagans' meant a lot of different things. I associate old "earth based" polytheistic religions with the original Paganism as well as the many more modern definitions of 'not a believer in one God' - such as an atheist or an agnostic. I am not a religious person though I consider myself to be spiritual and moral. I just can't get comfortable believing in any religion that implies that they are "right" or "saved" and others are "wrong", "amoral", eternally damned", etc. Every particular religion in the world consists of a minority of people living! Does that make the majority wrong? It made perfect sense that a native American 3000 years ago believed in sun, moon, or rain gods because the seasons and the natural forces greatly impacted if they would even survive the next year. Judaism or Christianity made sense if you lived in the Middle East 1500 or 2000 years ago. Religions will continue to evolve along with mankind.

The first part of your statement, which I bolded, is blatantly wrong! the second part is a tenet of all the different christian churches and denominations, and certainly a person, could practice that without benefit of belonging to any church.
But no matter how you define "Christianity" I don't see how that counters the point I was making, which you quoted?






What I meant by "easily gave", was that I and I'm sure others, wondered if you actually read the words you posted? It took me less than three minutes of online reading to see that, that definition, was in no way applicable to the people this thread was talking about. The way you posted it, reminded me of the many times I've heard christian preachers tell us how this person or group of people were going to be damned for eternity because they haven't accepted Christ as their savior. It's preached and taught as fact, with little or no consideration for the actual character of the person/people or consideration of their beliefs.

That is also what I meant by,
"so many people raised in a Christian faith have sought answers elsewhere."
I didn't say they were, "leaving to seek worldly pleasures" I hope, I didn't imply that.

You made a statement earlier in this thread, you said, "I don't have enough faith to be a Pagan."?
I find that puzzling, it's peoples faith in their christian belief, that I always found to be their greatest strength, what brings them the most peace. It seems to me, being christian requires far more faith than being pagan?



same here,

Ah me, let's reply. I harbor nothing but love and concern for all of you. I read every word I type, several times.

Inasmuch as Paganism has evolved from a belief distinction (first definition in MW dictionary) into a belief system (subsequent MW definitions) [already noted on Page 1 of this thread prior to my first post] all the dictionary definitions are true and valid or they would not be included. I did not write them, just quoted them. If you disagree then direct complaints to MW, or choose another definition for a lifestyle.

The basis of Christian salvation is belief in Jesus as the one and only Son of the one true God, that He was raised from the dead and lives today, and that in this belief we have eternal salvation. Like I said, I lived as a pagan for 51 years, so I have a rather broad reference point.

My faith gives me all the assurance needed because God did all the heavy lifting, not me. He changed me, I did nothing in the process. It takes way more faith to believe in a system where I make the rules as I go along and hope that it's correct and enough. No assurances there for daily peace, or eternity.

I condemn no one, so if you're offended, combative or just picky I would hope you ask God to examine your heart - my signature line below is my life verse.

I wish you all well. Be blessed,